How could Iran possibly not think the CIA are terrorists? If a foreign agency had overthrown our president and installed the dictator of their choice to rule us, we'd be calling them a terrorist organization. It's that simple, except for wingnuts.

Iran should have stuck to naming the Bush admistration a terrorist group, it would have been much simpler.

Iran calling the US Army "terrorists" would be like the US calling Iran "civilized;" they couldn't use a bigger misnomer.

Hi Kobra

I take you don't think Iran is "civilized"

Have you been to Iran?

Do you know any Iranians?

Perhaps you should view the people and the country you're calling "uncivilized"

The people of Iran don't support Ahmadinejead any more than the American People support Bush.

Given a true democratic choice right now, Iranians would reject Mahmoud and nuclear weapons.

Just as if Americans were given a truy democratic choice right now, they would reject the occupation of Iraq and the bombing of Iran.

We can't even secure Iraq let alone Iran.

In the end it all boils down to money and economics. Mahmoud wants war with Bush/Cheney as much as Bush/Cheney wants war with Mahmoud. Why drag the rest of us into this?

You should read what Major General Smedley Butler Wrote

Educate yourself.

Kobra is a Iranian name; I'm relatively sure she was speaking of the gov. FYI many Iranians feel having nuclear power is a matter of national pride

I dont have a "great" affection for the current administration of Iran, but I think that in order to be allowed to comment on a subject, one should possess an acceptable amount of knowledge on it. I believe that Kobra is fully in the black of the fact that Iran is one of the oldest civilizations on the earth today, that loooong before USA was "invented" and decided to bring peace and order to the world, they were the world leaders in military, mathematics, medicine, astronomy, agriculture, architecture, and so on, so on.

Even if you say that this is not important, Iran being an uncivilized country today does not mean that USA is NOT a terrorist country today. The explanation supplied by Iranian assembly needs to be considered seriously by the people, not the bigots who think there is nothing grater than the U.S. flag. If you dare say that Iran is very alone in this verdict, then you are not taking into account countless other countries which are bullied, bribed, terrorized into extinction, hinted about possible local disorders, etc. etc. to be the allies of US.

Why doesn't Ahmadinejead & Mr Bush get in a boxing ring and fight it out, whoever wins gets to call the other a terrorist for next 12 months! =)

Jeremey, agreed! I think all those that want to do war with each other should go do it off in some remote location and leave the rest out of it.

Hi Engin Tarhan,

Agreed. Too many Ameicans don't know their own history let alone the history of other countries, many of which, like the Persian Empire stretch back thousands of years.

Most Americans don't know Iranians are Persian, not Arab.

I love America, I think it's a great country. But the problem with some Americans is that they think America is above sin, above reproach.

America is not perfect and has committed many atrocities against humanity including slavery, genocide against the indigenious populations, internment of the Japanese, and the dropping of atomic bombs.

This doesn't even get into the third world countries and poor people we have exploited all over the world.

That save, America still has many, many great qualitites to it. It's still a very free society even though Bush is trying to curb our freedoms and the radical Christians are trying to turn it into a theocracy.

The sad fact is our government's foreign policy for the better part of 100 years has what's lead to the creation of many of the challenges we face in the Middle East today.

The meddling we've done with covert ops, CIA, and our military has led to the deaths of many innocent civilians, the destabilizing of societies, and left an entire region with a general mailaise with respect to the U.S.

But many Americans are not willing to admit we have made mistakes and are part of the problem. The administration, politicians, punditry class still try to portray America as the good guys beyond reproach and Iran as the bad guys.

It's not black and white.

I think most of you don't really understand the issues at hand. Unfortunately the "real
" world is a subjective one. There is no such thing as objective law,international justice accepted by all cultures, or bonafide terrorists (one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter). It's all in the eyes of the beholder. This whole new age European concept on international law and morals is completely out of touch with reality. It is putting the white man once again on the high horse , only excusing himself this time through massive amounts of self hatred.

The difficult thing about life is that sometimes it comes to the point of conflict , there isn't an animal on this planet that doesn't fight for one ridiculous reason or another. Humans are no better.

So in conclusion fuck being objective , if you are friends with somebody that smashed a god damned plane into a building in my country- your a terrorist in my book and deserve to die. I really couldn't give a shit what you think of me or how things might hypothetically seem from some unaccessible "objective" point of view.

Hi SMF

thanks for your comment.

You do realize the Bush/Cheney count Saudi Arabia as allies and visit the Saudi Royal family regularly? You do realize that the Bush Family has business ties with the Bin Laden family? You do realize that the majority of the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that Saudi Arabia is funding the sunni insurgency in Iraq?

Does this mean Bush/Cheney should die and we should bomb Saudi Arabia along with Iran?

Just curious how your mind works.

Bear in mind Bin Laden was a CIA operative who is STILL free.

PoliShifter , I love how you mix fact and myth in your post.

Fact: Yes I realize that the United States considers the Saudis allies. It is absolutely obvious that this is for economic reasons and the morality of this in my opinion aswell is questionable.

Myth: The bush family has family ties with the bin Laden family??? What kind of ties are you referring to , past or present ?? Personal, business, political? I am guessing you are referring to something that has to do with formal ties regarding Bin Laden and the United States in the past.

Fact: The majority of the high jackers come from Saudi Arabia. True, many of the worlds wealthy muslim etremists come from Saudi Arabia. None of these acts has been sponsered by the government. Actaully the Saudi governemt has been cooperative with USA presence in their country and comply (although actions do speak louder then words) with requests by us to crack down on terror in their borders. The worst I would accuse them of is not doing their best at getting rid of their local terrorists, definately not sponsering it.

MYTH: Saudi Arabia is funding the Iraqi insurgency. There is a big difference between several Saudis funding the insurgency (illegally in their own country by the way) and the whole country officially doing it. I find it funny how liberals exempt themselves from the "don't generalize" rule they love so much.

Now that we have seperated fact from fiction
why should Bush or Cheney (who wasn't even mentioned in your post by the way) die ??
And why should we bomb a Saudi government who is guily of being indefferent at most.

Honest question: Do you feel okay criticizing Saudi Arabia because they are a wealthy population that is considered friendly to the USA ??

What do you suppose we do with our enemies ??

Hi SMF:

Fact: Yes I realize that the United States considers the Saudis allies. It is absolutely obvious that this is for economic reasons and the morality of this in my opinion aswell is questionable.

Ok, based on your previous comment that:

So in conclusion fuck being objective , if you are friends with somebody that smashed a god damned plane into a building in my country- your a terrorist in my book and deserve to die.

So are you saying we should kill Saudis then?

Myth: The bush family has family ties with the bin Laden family??? What kind of ties are you referring to , past or present ?? Personal, business, political? I am guessing you are referring to something that has to do with formal ties regarding Bin Laden and the United States in the past.

Sorry, it's fact. The Bush Family including George W Bush had very close peronal and business ties with Salem Bin Laden, one of Osama's brother. For more information see the book House of Bush House of Saud or do some googling.

The reason I bring it up is because you said:

if you are friends with somebody that smashed a god damned plane into a building in my country- your a terrorist in my book and deserve to die.

Bush/Cheney are friends with Saudi Arabia. Bush did business and was friends with Salem Bin Laden, so do you hold them to the same standard?

Also, it is known that at least part of the money to fund 9/11 came through the UAE...We are also allies with the UAE, Halliburton just moved their HQ there. What say you about UAE? After all, they in part enabeld 9/11.

MYTH: Saudi Arabia is funding the Iraqi insurgency. There is a big difference between several Saudis funding the insurgency (illegally in their own country by the way) and the whole country officially doing it. I find it funny how liberals exempt themselves from the "don't generalize" rule they love so much.

I would argue you are flat wrong based on what I have read. The Saudi government is indeed itself funding some of the Sunni insurgency. There's also evidence that Saudia Arabia is funding Hamas.

There is a big difference between several Saudis funding the insurgency (illegally in their own country by the way) and the whole country officially doing it.

You really made no distinction before, you just said: if you are friends with somebody that smashed a god damned plane into a building in my country- your a terrorist in my book and deserve to die.,

Now that we have seperated fact from fiction
why should Bush or Cheney (who wasn't even mentioned in your post by the way) die ??

I'm not saying they should, I'm saying based on your logic, should they? Seeing as how Bush/Cheney are friends with Saudi Arabia. You cast a pretty big net there.

Now you're parsing out the Saudi People from the Saudi government assuming no ties, assuming Saudi Arabia does not support Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, over lookng the radical wahabist Islam Saudi Arabia teaches in their schools where its death to America 24/7.

You seem to be suggesting we should bomb Iran because they were somehow friends with the 9/11 hijackers. I'm telling you that Saudi Arabia was closer to being friends with the hijackers than, thus with your logic, we should be bombing Saudi Arabia. Would you advocate for that? If not, isn't that hypocritical?

Honest question: Do you feel okay criticizing Saudi Arabia because they are a wealthy population that is considered friendly to the USA ??

Do I feel ok? What does that mean? I'll criticize any country I want if I feel they warrant criticism.

The reason I brought up Saudi Arabia was because you seem to hate muslims and muslim countries and today's hate du jour is Iran. How can you possibly separate the two in your mind?

Why is it ok with you to hate Iran and call for its bombing but cozy up with Saudi Arabia? Makes no sense to me.

What do you suppose we do with our enemies ??,

Well there was a time in our country when we engaged in as much diplomacy as possible to avoid war at all costs. This has been our history. There have been many times when the USA and USSR were on the brink of war and what prevented war? Negotiations and diplomacy.

China and the US have come close to war. What keeps us from war? Diplomacy and negotiations.

If your solution, which you seem to allude to, is that we kill all our enemies then we have no choice but to start nuking the entire world. Is that what you want? Kill'em all?

This is my last post , since I was hoping that I would be discussing this matter on a higher level of intellect. I see that you have no ability to address my facts at all.

Either you are making generalizations stating because there are some terrorists in the UAE and Saudi Arabia then the governments must be terrorists themselves. Or you are assuming that I am kind of narrow minded bigot, meaning that I would assume such things myself and therefor you would have a point in your argument.

Well my friend I am not so narrow minded , both the United States and especially the Israelis hold very clear regulations regarding which organizations and establishments countries may legally do business with. Yet they both regard the Saudis as a moderate country bent on stabilizing the region (the Israelis, mind you, do not have access to Saudi oil for political reasons so the old, its for the money excuse isnt applicable to them).

You can look up the facts , and see that the UAE and Saudis are cooperating with the west in every aspect of the problem. Including to try there own ways of stopping escalation
The Saudis proposed a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians , one that would include recognition of the Jewish State and a peace treaty between it and every Arab country in the region.
The Saudis held several important talks to try to establish a cease fire between the different factions of the palestinian governement to try to end the violence there.
The Saudis have granted the USA security forces free pass in all their terrotory in order to create global security.
None of the Saudis government funds sponser or support terrorism , and no militant group is legally allowed to run infrastructure in the country. So I am going to tell you once again - stop being racist and judging all the Saudis as terrorists because of the acts of a few.

My main view on the reason we should bomb Iran is because they are aspiring for nuclear technology. You see the minute I have excused myself from playing the "objective" white man. I can say loud and clear that when I don't trust someone - they aren't entitled to nuclear technology. I don't want people who loudly state that they are opposed to my way of life to have the ability to build such weapons. The world isn't a game of WARCRAFT. Both sides don't need to be even, the playing field doesn't need to be leveled.

Before the nazis came to power in 1930s Europe, the west was tired of war. This was a time when the USA policy was not to interfere in international disputes. Hitler gained more and more influence and did things that were more and more disputable. All the Western powers did was sit and watch how he annexed, Austria and differents parts of the region into Germany. While he spoke of war with the free world and discussed human rights violations he had in store for his country's minorities. Why you ask, did the massive armies of the free west not intervene at the beginning , when it was easy ?? Because the western population said they must refrain from war at all cost. Because "there is always a diplomatic way to end all disputes" (this is placebo in it's highest form. Maybe if we say this enough times than it will be true).

Now after a horrible war that ended in millions of dead on both sides, not to mention millions dead from mass Genocide. History repeats itself (or at least creates instances of Deja Vu). Today we see ourselves with an individual who speaks out against human rights in his own country, one who causes turmoil in a very delicate part of the world when he states that he wishes to wipe a country off the map. You my friend, can stay on your high horse until we fight it out with them in Nuclear World War 3. I on the other hand am all for kicking his ass while its still easy. And I say that if the Iranian population is against its government (which may be true regarding specific issues). It is still responsible for it - the Islamic revolution in the country was brought forth by a mass majority of the population during the 70's. It was a revolution done by the poor and middle classes of the country , they are the ones that decided that the government they wish to install as a radically religious and fanatical one. And so today they are responsible for its actions. In conclusion if the government or the masses of people don't stop the national aspiration for nuclear weapons, I hope they die.

You my friend can continue your nonsense ideals like I am sure you will. After all this issue is like any other you link to on your site - the quest to stop idustrial farming , the quest to have bush impeached, the quest for gay rights,.....

The funny thing is I think that on most of these quests I probably agree with your stand.

You need to learn to think for yourself , dont just fit yourself into some liberal "mold" where you automatically take the same left wing approach to EVERY SINGLE ISSUE in the book. It proves you aren't doing much research in the subjects at hand.

SMF

PS - I don't hate muslims or muslim countries , you are trying to label me as some "molded" conservative with right wing christian ideals. Of course everyone who disagrees with you must be. You have just proven that in your own way - your the bigot.

This is my last post , since I was hoping that I would be discussing this matter on a higher level of intellect. I see that you have no ability to address my facts at all.

Ok, so you didn't write anything I read. I understand...most wingnuts don't read.

My main view on the reason we should bomb Iran is because they are aspiring for nuclear technology.

Again, your logic doesn't hold water. What about Pakistan? North Korea? There are mutliple countries around the world that have nukes that are not exactly U.S. friendly. Russia isn't exactly on friendly terms with us and they are loaded with nukes, many unaccounted for since the breakup of the USSR. Again, if nukes is the criteria, we gots a lot of bombing to do.

You need to learn to think for yourself , dont just fit yourself into some liberal "mold" where you automatically take the same left wing approach to EVERY SINGLE ISSUE in the book. It proves you aren't doing much research in the subjects at hand.

What proves anything? What you have proven is you are woefully ignorant on what is going on in the world. You've proven that with your own misconceptions.

You've proven you have fallen hook, line, and sinker for the Administration propaganda. My guess is you head is pumped full of conservative talk radio and fox news every day.

I'm guessing you still believe Saddam had WMD and attacked us on 9/11.

You seem so sure that Iran is getting nukes. You are so willing to believe an Administration that has repeatedly lied to the American People. Why is that?

Let's do each extreme: The NeoCons say Iran could have nukes in as little as 12 months. Other experts say they are at least 10 years away.

Let's just split it down the middle and say Iran might be able to build nuke in 5 years. But they still need the ICBM technology to hit America though they could hit their neighbors.

5 years out, still murky details on whether Iran is really trying to build a nuke or develop nuclear technology.

And you don't want to give diplomacy and sanctions if necessary a chance?

Bush has been a big pusher of nuclear power technology. Why can't Iran have nuclear power?

As usual there is an economic component to all this. If the U.S. were selling nuke components to Iran everything would be fine. But we're not. France and Russia are. Should we bomb them too?

It can all be boiled down to economics.

Saddam was threatening to start trading oil in Euros rather than dollars. This would have devastated the U.S.'s ability to float debt. So we got rid of him. Iran is threatening to make the same move.

We've negotiated with enemies in the past to avoid war. What's the difference now?

The Bush Administration is the difference. a chickenhawk administration that believes all disputes can be settled with bombs.

We see how well that worked with Iraq. Can't wait to see how great it works out with Iran.